Category: the Rant Board
I have been a cl here for now on more than 5 years. And I have never been more discusseded with a group of people more than I have been of late here. I have tried my best to be a CL that people will fill comfortable with coming to me with their issues so that we vcan solve them and have a thriving and fun place to chat and spend time together. Howevver as of late it has became a lets see who I can be mean to and degrade today. And this needs to stop immediately. Starting with the cl's. If ou think we are not doing our jobs then talk to us, face us with it so we can fix or explain to you how we are dealing with something. Dong't go ehind our backs stabbing us proclaiming what we are doing wrong. Also this crap about Cl's having their favorites. Yes I guess I do have favorites, if you call a fvorite someone that I may have bought a premium for, someone I may have been a bit lieniant with, and not banning them just because theysaid something a bit wrong. Then I guess I have been doing wrong and I will in the future tighten down and be a per my interpertation of the T.O.S. In other words a baby sitter one who goes word for word by the T.O.S. And I dont think that would be a good thing.
The hate word NIGGAR, SPICK, Slams against religion needs to stop. Immediately!!! There is no sense in it. We are adults here not 2 year olds. And no this dont mean you dont have freedom of speeh it is mearly a respect thing. SO LETS TRY TO RESPECT EACH OHER A LITLE MORE PLEASE.
I may add more as this rant goes on too. I also encourage your to tell me what I am doing wrong or who I am dong wrong. There has been comments made in publics that we are setting there letting people break the T.O.S. And letting people get by with it. When in fact we dont always do disiplin by public quicknotes, and make public specticles out of somones doing something wrong. However there are times that needs to be done. Also note tht we do things different sometimes. Write or wrong it just happens.
Okay I may post more as time goes on but this is my rant. Leave me comments and we will try and get the zone back in line.
I encourage other cl's to posts too have a great day.
I don't see what you have done wrong. You do a lot more for the site than most of the other Cl's. At least you make a little bit of time to come on each day. Everyone has people they get along with more so on here, and showing some resentment only proves that we are all human. If you let someone get by from a serious offense on here, you know that was wrong and I don't have to tell you that. I'd be curious to know why people have something against you, and to the other CL's of this site, why do you volunteer for the position when you know that you are involved in things that will tkae up more of your time, and lessen the time you can put forth to the zone.
As far as the trolling goes, the people who do it know the boundaries. I haven't seen anyone say the n word but if anyone did, they shouldn't even wonder why they were banned because it's quite obvious. I just don't see trolling ever stopping. For whatever reason, people find it fun to do I guess.
I don’t agree with public discipline, and think that should always be done privately, and after discussion among the CL staff, if the offense is debatable.
I also don’t expect CL’s to settle petty disputes in public or private, or protect others from being bullied. The ignore feature is available for this reason.
Now, if a CL makes a remark to their opinion on the bullying and sticks up for the person being bullied, that is okay, but being a babysitter is not your responsibility. Help that person privately feel better about themselves with positive comments is about all you can do.
Anything that is against the Terms of service is just that and should be dealt with, but again privately.
I personally think the CL staff does a good job, and feel they should also be allow to be themselves, as I notice is done.
There is a line a CL can’t cross, such as, joining in on the bullying, but their board post, and such things should be what they think.
All I personal expect a CL to do is uphold the terms of service, be helpful as to sight issues, and be friendly to a point. I do not expect them to take abuse, but again, if you are CL abuse shouldn’t be in your line. You, hopefully, were chosen due to your tough skin, adultness, and ability to defend yourself without personal rancor, or holding of grudges.
That is my 2 cents.
If I can do favouritism, I will do it for you sir, cl doug.
I do personally feel, none of us can be without doing favour to our own friends circle or to someone we like. If I was a cl, I'll surely be leanient against girls than guys. it's nature, in my opinion.
However, what I suggest you is, there will be always some kind of anti-socialists everywhere in this human living earth. So we have to just take practice for ignoring their comments or whatever and move on with our own way. If I was you, I'll follow that for sure.
Raaj.
can I just point out that there is an ignore feature for a reason? if you don't like the quicknotes a user is posting, feel free to use it.
I'm sorry you've been facing some sort of explosive situation there. My opinion is every CL I have come across has done their level best, so far as I've seen. And as to the discipline / monitoring thing, it seems you are all discreet about it, which makes the most sense. I, too, think if a CL writes on a board topic, they should be as free as the rest of us to express themselves, and those who do put on the CL hat do so in a manner that separates it from being personal,in my experience. I didn't really understand the need for CLs when I first came on here, but have grown to appreciate what it is you all do.
Ryan, as to taking the job and knowing what you're getting into? I'll clue you all in: There are times I just don't feel like doing my Coast Guard volunteer work either, and sometimes your day job or studies or the kids or whatever clamps what you can do in your volunteer activities. And being a CL is just like signing up with the Red Cross or something, a volunteer activity only it's seems to me to be pretty thankless as a job.
It does seem to me sometimes the CLs get the shaft unnecessarily by some people on here. And everyone in some authority has to practice discretion in interpreting rules and things, and somebody's gonna make the accusation, often without sources or evidence, that there is favoritism. Usually because they don't know all the circumstances behind it, or all that factored into that authority's decision. I'm all for questioning authority. But if you just spout off claiming things against authority, you're no different than a mindless religious sheople who goes along with it. Question it means look into the situation, for real. In other words, questioning a decision takes actual effort, not just feeling like you're doing something.
Yes Benito (Dan) we have the ignore feature and yes people should use it but when they do use it then it should be respected and not be badgered with. the opposite person should leave them along nd not send or try and hackle them like singling that person out to give them points .
Also this isn't a poor Doug session and I don't want that this is an over all what has been going on the zone posting. This is just my feelings and hopes of getting the zone back on track.
I don't have a problem with you doug. and I agree with dan, the ignore feature is there even the cl's should use that.
First of all, I think this kind of crap has been going on for years, and I'm not surprised, Doug, that you finally felt the need to rant. I would have done so a long time ago. I think the childish behavior on here by many users is why it has been so hard to keep CL's for long periods of time. I used to be friends with someone who wanted to be a CL and was thrilled when he was picked, but then he only stuck it out for a year and hated most of that year because he had never realized all the crap he would have to put up with including people expecting him to solve arguements between them and their fellow zone users. That definitely should not be an expectation of any CL.
Secondly, Doug, you and Anthony are the only two CL's who come on here visibly regularly. The other CL's either are not coming on anymore or are staying invisible, and I distinctly remember one of these people promising to be visible and available when they campaigned for the position. So, my hats off to you, Doug for trying to stay available for Zone users, and I don't blame you at all for grumbling about the behavior of many users and their expectations of you.
I think if I were a CL I would use the ability to ban people much more liberally, so I admire you every time you put up with shit and don't end up banning more people.
I'm sorry, but that isn't an excuse. If you sign up for something, whether it's volunteer or paid, you need to show that you deserve to have it. Period. It's not a matter of whether or not you feel like doing what you are supposed to do. There is an explanation of what you are expected to do on the page with the application. And on top of that, there are people here who have experience with being a CL. So I don't buy that. We need CL's that will step up to the plate, not say one thing and do another. That's the only way things will be changed around here, and make it easier on those who put forth the effort. It's called team work.
And people should use the ignore feature if they don't want to put up with the bullying crap. If the people evade the ignore feature and harass you regardless, they should be banned. I don't like the trolling or the bullying either, but I don't know what to do other than ignore it and stay out of it all together. Seems to make the most sense to me...
Doug, you have my heart-felt sympathy.
Most folks have no idea what a cl does, until something doesn't work, then they're quick to blame.
A long time ago I spent a year being a cl. I thought it would be fun--and it was for about three minutes. I kept my qns on, though I don't participate in that feature, just so I could be accessible.
But the whole time I hated the gossip, and back biting that went on, and especially farotting out people who were trying to get a fictitious log-on id. I did enjoy banning those folks, though.
So, as I said, you have my sympathy.
If it's too much, you might quit for a while.
Bob
People attacking and abusing others on the Zone? Seriously? I'm shocked!!!
It is inevitable that those who have power on the Zone will be criticised when they make decisions people disagree with. It is also inevitable, considering some people practically live on the Zone, that people will discuss community leaders in public.
No. A CL should never ever use the ignore feature. If you decide to be CL you are in the soup for better or worse.
I also agree that if you are chosen you need to put some visible time in. If you don't have time do not apply.
No it shouldn't rule your life, but some time is required.
I honestly tuned out half way through your rant.
Lmao amelia. was it that boreing?
No she didn't. She proved it by posting. hahaha
In all sincerity, here's my two cents. This kind of bashing and trolling is on every internet domain, such is the risk of exposing yourself to strangers on a computer if you don't like it don't respond or be the bigger person and do not take part. If we all curled up and wined every time another individual annoyed us, life would be quite boring indeed. If I gave up in life by bowing down to every idiot who gave me hell in middleschool I wouldn't have developed any respect today. Don't take this the wrong way Doug, but try and suck it up. I really don't think the "bullying" issues are truely as bad as you say.
Oh and, I believe the word you were looking for in the middle of post 1 is interpretation.
One last thread and I sware I'm done. You say that people haggle for points. Well why not? One's point cock determines how much of a life we don't have, tis what an average zoner strives for. But if you would like favors in exchange for point haggling. I'm sure %a can tickle your pickle for a nickle. Add a bit of fun to this grueling CL position.
Amelia as I said this was not intecded to be a poor me party this is a reflection of feed back that is coming from members, and new users. I personally can tell when someone is bantering and having fun and do my best to over look a lot of bs or else there would be no members at all.
This post was to hopefully help stop some of the harsh bullying that is going on that evidently your not aware of. And there is a lot especially to new members. I am in total agreement that there is stuff that goes on all web sites . and as you said you just have to ignore.
My last hope for the post that it would bring some of the other cls old and new to possibly post some their on concerns to hopefully get them more involved. To which thus far as not happened.but none the less I got the thoughts off my chest.
This board has made me feel better about myself, and because of the fact that not every person has to jump on the bandwagon and bash someone to feel recognized and that they won't fit in unless they do it. Everyone else could jump off a bridge just because one cool person did it, while I and a select few outcasts just watch from the bank. Just because it happens on other sites doesn't condone it or make it right. I know there isn't a lot that can be done, but at least I can live well knowing that I don't have to make someone else miserable, or make myself happy at their expense. Have frun, and enjoy making yourself the idiot that you claim your target to be.
I would really like to know who these so called bullies and things are. I would also like to know, Doug, how on earth have you not just snapped off at someone being stupid. I tip off my hat to you sir. Here's my thing about my ignore feature, and this is just an observation. We can't use the ignore feature in real life, so, lest I feel genuinely threatened, I try not to use the damn thing, but I guess this isn't real life now is it? Just a general observation.
Ryan, most of the time people who "bully" (note the quotation marks) don't do it because someone else did it. I've been called a bully on here, and I've never once gone, "hey look, ryan didn't like that post, let me go bash it a bit too." If I riddicule someone, or religion, or an opinion given it is because I personally feel it is worthy of riddicule. I invite people to do the same when my opinions are worthy of riddicule.
I think a lot of people would benefit from growing a thicker skin. Not everyone is going to like you, not here, not in real life. Not everyone is going to agree with you. Not everyone is going to allow you to spout off your opinions without challenge. The faster you learn to deal with that, the better.
Cody is right, and I couldn't have said it better myself.
personally, I quite enjoy ripping on and bashing people. the reactions I get amuse me to no end. it's not even about making myself feel better than other people, it's just funny. i'm not here for any popularity contest, and I could care less whether you lot approve of some of the shit I say on here. my own entertainment is all that matters to me.
Whatever happened to the newest CL, anyway? She hasn't logged in since January and only got the position last November. C'mon now, I can't be the only one rolling my eyes over here...
which is exactly why some have brought up the fact that applying for a position, volunteer or not, is stupid, when you can't actually commit to it.
there are 2 cl s this might apply to. I happen to know one has quite an important commitment that was unforseen at the time she was given the post. the other, god knows where she is. it's entirely possible she got a life that's less centered around the internet.
Yeah I know not everyone does it for the same reasons. Maybe I shouldn't have jumped to such a conclusion, but I feel lately that has been the case with more people that have done it.
I agree with Cody. I also think if someone tells you to leave them alone, they really should practice the same self respect they'd want. Just sayin.
Ryan, you troll yourself. sometimes I Suppose everyone likes to play devils advocate.
I do it to those who I know will handle it and won't get bent out of shape. Yes, I have done it to those who didn't but it's been a while since I did. It was something I didn't find amusing and thought it was stupid and pointless after a while. But since I'm not going to convince anyone otherwise, I don't want to waste any more time on this matter. Do as you wish.
I feel like the cl's are doing a great job. . Keep up the awesome work. . I have seen the zone grow in the 7 and a half. years. since i joined the site. .. i don't offen log in.. i respect anyone. who does the same to me...
If you are CL and something comes up that causes you to not be able to log on maybe every other day resign so the post becomes available again. Why hold on to something you can't do?
right on, Wayne.
Agreed, wayne.
Agreed completely with post 35.
A few random comments...
I don't think CL's should use the ignore feature. Their role on the site puts them in a position where they have to interact with people they may otherwise choose not to deal with; as CL's, they have to be available to help all, not just certain members.
If a CL realizes that, due to time constraints or other issues, they can't fulfill the time requirements for the position, the best thing they can do for themselves and everyone else is to step down. That way, the position can be filled by someone who does have the time.
Oh boy, where to even start with this topic. So much has been brought up. Well, the ignore feature then. Why not.
See I've always taken a rather controversial stance with the ignore feature, in so much as I think it is a nuisance rather than a help to the community leaders. Here's the crux, rule for of the terms of service states "Harassment of other users is not tolerated". Now that in of itself is a simple rule. Easy to understand and easy to take action on if it isn't adhered too. But then the ignore feature was introduced and immediately the waters were muddied. At what point is it the responsibility of the user being harassed to put the person harassing them on ignore? Indeed is it right to now insist that that should be the first course of action when there is a rule in the terms of service quite clearly stating that they should have the right to use this website without being harassed. Why should that user be placed in a position where they may miss out on conversation in quicknotes, or on the boards that might well interest them, just because the community leaders didn't feel that they could ban another user who may have previously been bullying them.
Of course i do get the rationale behind the ignore feature, and I do think it was introduced in a genuine attempt to help the community leaders, I'm just not convinced that it has achieved what was intended.
I actually consider it a bit of a cheap cop out to come in here, pick on people, and then insist that they're in the wrong for not using the ignore feature when they have the temerity to complain about your behavior to be honest.
So there you go, there's my alternate thinking on the ignore feature.
Next community leaders. Having done the job myself for a couple of years you won't be surprised to hear that I'm going to spring to their defense. There are few things more irksome than quietly dealing with a situation behind the scenes, only then to be accused of bias and unfair treatment by people who know 50% of the full story, and often even less than that. Perhaps it is just human nature but, people seem to think that being somebody's friend automatically means that that person can do no wrong, won't ever lie and couldn't possibly have stepped out of line. I particularly remember when "Yankie_G" Garret got banned during my time as a CL. That caused a massive furore on the site. We were all kinds of unfair and out of order for banning him, even though he'd essentially spent 3 years picking on everybody he considered mentally inferior to him. He had more chances than 9 cats worth of 9 lives and yet, we were still in the wrong when he got given his final marching orders.
Having said all that it is just something that CL's do have to grow a thick skin over because it has always happened, and I have no doubt, will continue to happen for as long as this website exists.
With regard to the amount of time that many of the current crop of CL's put in I do agree that it isn't really acceptable from far too many of them. I'm sorry to say that because I'm friends with many of them so I really don't want this to come across as a personal attack but really, an hour or 2 a week really isn't a lot to ask. After all, you did volunteer for the position and if you now find yourselves at a place in your life where that is an unrealistic expectation, then it is time to pass the reins onto people who do have the time, enthusiasm and inclination to do the job. Just out of curiosity I've had a quick look and OceanDream hasn't logged in for more than 2 months. Grecia hasn't been seen in more than 3 weeks and while Liz was here just yesterday, she will often go several weeks or longer without putting in an appearance.
As I say, nothing personal in all of this but community leaders do have rolls to perform on this site and if several aren't pulling their weight, then it just heaps more responsibility and stress on the shoulders of the few that do turn up regularly which isn't at all fair.
Having said all that, and here's a point nobody else has made yet, while I do hold those community leaders responsible for not making the effort it should be pointed out that leadership should start from the top. And before we start singling out CL's that aren't pulling their weight on the site, what about the admins? Now again, I don't want any of this to be taken personally, I don't know Jay well but I like the guy I have interacted with and I definitely do consider Chris a friend, all be it a distant one but honestly, one of the toughest things for me as a community leader, and one of the reasons I eventually quit the post was that I felt like there was so little interest in anything site related from those two.
There's nothing more frustrating than being asked questions by users that can only be answered by an admin, but then having to wait literally weeks for an answer, while being bombarded every time you log in by the user who can't understand why it is so hard to get an answer to a simple inquiry. You really just start feeling like a bit of an idiot after a while.
It perhaps is the toughest thing to say, never the less, it is the truest fact; things aren't run very professionally and while it might be hard as an outsider to see why community leaders eventually become apathetic, having been on the inside, I can understand all to well why it happens.
One final point, and don't worry, I will keep this one short, promise...
Community leaders should never use the ignore feature.
That is all.
Dan.
On the ignore feature.
It is not always used because someone is bullying you. Most times it is because someone doesn’t agree with what you say, how you present yourself, and or your opinions.
Sometimes on the boards in open discussion a person isn’t being bullied just their opinion is being challenged. Now I do admit that the way some posters choose to challenge an opinion is a bit rough, and sometimes uncalled for, but is their method.
This is freedom of speech.
Sometimes people get in to spats off Zone, bring it on Zone, and complain because they are being bullied. Maybe the love affair is now over, and such things.
The ignore feature is good for that.
Last, I do agree that if you are being harassed for no reason, and you’ve use the ignore feature, and someone is getting around it and harassing you, they should be banned for a said amount of time.
I personally have no use for the ignore feature due to the fact I can defend myself, or just mentally ignore someone if I decide, but feel for some it is a good thing.
Plus, I come here to be entertained and want to see what craziness someone has to say. Loll
Last, it has settings so that you can ignore maybe quick notes, but see what the person you dislike has to say in other areas.
I think that the ignore feature has its place as post 40 states and, I also agree that community leaders should never use it.
And if you can't log into the zone to perform your duties as a CL, please resign.
The fact that we're so many different people from varying backgrounds and locations worldwide, means that we are not always going to agree with everything that everyone else has to say. That's just how things are. Perhaps there are some cultural differences and that's just how it goes.
Way to sum that up, Dan. I hope it gets noticed.
Good job, as usual, Dan. You are one of the most, if not *the* most articulate person on this site.
I have a suggestion for Doug and any other CL who gets bombarded with questions they can't answer or problems they can't solve because only one of the admins can answer those questions or look into those suggestions or problems. Tell them to bombard the PM boxes of the two admins and even send them emails every day. I've actually sent the occasional email and PM to those two and nine times out of ten have never gotten a response. BUT PERHAPS If the CL's keep encouraging people to take their problems/questions, etc. to the admins then they might finally realize they need to get more involved. I'm not saying every piddly little complaint or hair brained suggestion for the site should be sent to the admins, but whenever a CL is getting bitched at because he or she can't get an answer from the admins, then they should strongly encourage the person to go to the admins directly. Maybe this will help. Just a suggestion.
Wow...thanks DAN (harp) a lot of those things I wantedsaid but didn't want the backlash... and yes thee are people on the zone making a mockery out of this board post I have made. and to those folks I wont waste my time.
As I said before I am not wanting to police the place and get someone one for having a good time. there is a difference. okay enough for now. thanks to all for your post for or against.
Honestly, the sight is tame in comparison to how it was in 2008 2009 and 2010, and even before then, from what' i've heard. Maybe all the ill will is just finally getting to you doug?
As both a troll, and someone who has been trolled on the sight, I do plan on creating a serious topic about the trolling/bullying, all the forms it takes, the differences between what people would most likely wish you to believe happened, and what usually does, etc... But even then, I think some of the realities of the subject will never be honestly taken seriously by the community, because its hard to look in the mirror, and see the truth.
I've been a cl for three years now and freely admit that I have been absent over the past couple of months due to personal reasons. I had considered resigning my position however I was aware that my time would become my own again at some point and that I would be able to spend more time here in due course, a fact which was known to the rest of the staff. I can now safely say that, ... I am back. :-)
Firstly, while I agree with some users that bullying, harassment and general idiocy (let's not pretend that it's anything else, shall we?) has always been a factor on the site, this fact and knowledge of this fact doesn't mean that we should just accept it and pretend that it's ok - it isn't.
Dan has said a lot of what I was going to say before I read his board post, harassment shouldn't be tolerated and is prohibited under the TOS and maybe it's time we as CL's started to take more note of that. but just remember one thing, harassment doesn't just mean the user you don't like and who does the things you don't like. Harassment can equally apply to users who repeatedly call for the banning of other users just because you don't like them. So when you consider that you are the harassee, just take a minute to think about whether your constant tale-telling has in fact turned you into the harassor. Just a thought....
Yes, the site has an ignore feature, however that in itself does not absolve you of your responsibility for your conduct on the site. "If people don't like it, they can ignore it," just isn't good enough. If you log on to a site and behave inappropriately or in a manner which other users find particularly offensive then you do so in the knowledge that at some point you will be called on this kind of behavior.
And yes, bullying, harassment goes on on other forums too. Does that make it ok? no. What generally happens is that the sites where bullying and harassment isn't tolerated are far more pleasant places to go, so the more reasonable users go there and the rest are left to bring sites like this into disrepute.
one more thing, just because cl's do not discuss with users in public what action is being taken doesn't mean that none is.But while we as CL's are responsible forthe way the site is run we are not answerable to individual users just because you think we are.
I think some of us users have to much of an us verses them mentality. Some people think you are out to get us for some reason.
I almost threw my hat in the ring this last go round but didn't because I was afraid that I didn't have the technical know-how and wasn't well enough known. I'll probably run next time there's an opening.
i think the lot of you should just come out and get laid. go stick your prick ina hole. or better yet offer to take a prick in your hole. +-some of you are so damn bitter cause you dont get any. get out some. live a little. go to church. give praise ylou are alive. be nice for a change. god bless. gizzy